george wegers obituary

He had a passion for motorcycles from a very young age, possibly spurred on by a Harley Davidson motorcycle owned by one of his neighbours that he used to see parked out the front. I became absolutely averse to their very existence as a club during the murderous rampage in Quebec led by Maurice Boucher and his thugs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Boucher. 16] would now be at most twenty-twenty-nine and possibly only twenty-eight, depending on her birth date. He died in July 1947 at 47 years of age. There is an illuminating interview with Zorana in the last part of this video: https://youtu.be/hSwIPdQ4Kk0 starting at about 24:30. Pagans Book Jersey Tough by Wayne Big Chuck Bradshaw. Copyright 2023 IDCrawl LLC. ), [49] Back to the question of what exactly George Christie was probably willing to see happen to Noel Barger. 44]. If youre upset that they rode through Arizona and you werent notified, I apologize. [p. 210] Hoover allegedly replied, We should have gotten a call, out of respect. George claims he answered that with: Im trying to stop the war in Europe from bleeding over into the States. Ja Rule, You are one weird dude, Hells angels sell drugs, you hate them for that, yet this guy is your hero, wake up man. View Full Report . But even if I had the power, I wouldnt have used it. We mourn with the family of George Wegers for this great loss. Find out more on Amazon. . https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/2000/08/09/hells-aged-angel/4489a3e6-70e1-4d97-8024-775e3159de17/?utm_term=.7ac4910eb485, [04] Three early victims of the Hells Angels creed were Margo Compton and her twin daughters. It didnt happen and I didnt die, so I really lucked out there are a lot of people in this world who need to be killed. (I cant help wondering how many people he gave that memo to.) Law enforcement agencies should consider class action lawsuits against the state of California, for harboring so many rogue groups. Alberta Injustice. A wife who admitted in that same article to getting money from the FBI and to signing papers saying she was an informant. [37] However, although Sonny had requested a transfer to Cave Creek in August of 1997, he didnt actually move there until October of 1998. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0054554/bio [and cf para. 5:49 p.m., San Rafael Struc ture fire in George Weger resid ence. Please help us out by hitting the Share button so that we can keep bringing you more articles and Follow us on Facebook so that you get updated when we release new articles. Irene Gorrie. He fails to give credit where it was due and he sets up an innocent third party to take heat for a false claim hed made about what they had supposedly promised to do. And now every Hells Angel and every Club 81 supporter in all of Arizona knows that the President of Cave Creek would really, really like to see the back of Noel Barger, who is now officially labelled as an FBI informant. Gee, what could go wrong with that? George Wegers Death | Obituary | George Wegers Dead | Died | Funeral Plans - We heard about the great loss, that George Wegers is no more and has reportedly passed away. Mobile number (812) 820-2964 . . If they treat me good, Ill treat them better. With a brief summary of over one hundred clubs, this is a fantastic reference book to get a quick feel for all of the clubs that are out there. VINCENT STACY REEVES, 50, Associate Bellingham Chapter, Bandidos Under the supervision of Dr. George Weger I fasted him for forty days. Did you encounter any technical issues? B. Lovell, and Clarence H. Lichtfeldt, all University of California, San Francisco Library (UCSF). I am satisfied from my personal experience that George Christie was quite willing to re-write history, in order to be able to say that he sent me the article and not the other way around. Issues surrounding Hoovers murder are addressed later on in this blog-post. Pagans Book Riding on the Edge: A Motorcycle Outlaws Tale by John Hall. Behaving worse to someone you think has wronged you, is not fair, its vindictive and its the creed of a punk, of a gangster. AARON KENNETH WISE, 34, Member Missoula Chapter, Bandidos Hopefully this case will serve to dismantle the Bandido Motorcycle Organization in our area and will have a significant impact upon methamphetamine distribution, thefts, burglaries, crimes of violence and other nefarious activities that plague our community," added Whatcom County Sheriff Bill Elfo. An honorable profession when pursued by honorable men.I'll tell you why I want them all dead, and could pull the trigger on hundreds if you lined them up for me, and sleep like a baby that night convinced I had done rightI hate a pimp. Thru his books and meeting him, he taught me a lot. When she signed whatever papers the FBI agent put in front of her, she was in the hospital, most likely whacked out on pain-killers, and very, very pissed off, no doubt, since it was her husband who had put her there. "We do bad things to bad people". 04] But, innocent people dont run away. BRITT AUGUSTUS ANDERSON, 34, Whatcom County Chapter, Bandidos WALTER BAIL, 48, of Blaine, Washington [44] Its also clear that Christie is trying to protect himself in his book from any accusation that he gave Hoover the go-ahead to kill Noel. George Weger Vice President Area Manager - Lakeland Bank Long Valley, NJ George Weger Branch Manager/Vice President - Somersethills Bank Long Valley, NJ George Weger Courrier - Business Express Casselberry, FL Eduardo Lopez Vice President/Branch Manager - Lakeland Bank Totowa, NJ Jack Collado Multimedia Intern - A Free Bird Show all results. The first time he was stuck in that position was after I had arranged a sit-down with the Bandidos [p. 209] So, Christie is making these claims about Hoover and Sonny and the first phone call; and, according to what he stated earlier in his book about the timing of the Bandidos truce, Hoover would have had to have become Sonnys shop partner and cutout [sic] by 1997 at the latest. It consists of a great many photos from the archives of the Oakland Hells Angels, and a rather sparse text by Sonny Barger. And a couple of dead Hells Angels. [p. 202, p. 227] [see also para. Bandidos Book Out in Bad Standings: Inside The Bandidos Motorcycle Club The Making Of A Worldwide Dynastyby Edward Winterhalder. Moreover, if Hoover comes across as a bit slow in that August 2000 Independent article: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/an-angel-at-my-table-697297.html he also comes across as being highly respectful, even deferential, to Sonny. This is a classic in the outlaw motorcycle club community and is a must read for anyone interested in finding out about early life in the Hells Angels. Early one morning, the answer was in front of me: Thats what he would have done. Friends and families of the deceased are mourning the passing of their loved and cherished George. Sadly, I've never seen any credible HAs come out of Ontario. The specific charges were hardly flashy: Wegers and the others were accused of such varied crimes as stealing motorcycles, kidnapping a rival motorcycle club member (the kidnapping lasted a day . disease. Mongo was six-foot-four and well over three hundred pounds, with flaming orange hair, the result of a botched dye job. Sarrah Barger, however who was only thirteen years old as of June 2003 [cf. View obituary. Theodore Schmid was stand handling not wear shoes. George Weger George Weger (1900 - 1947) Jump to: Bio graphy Family , View FREE Public Profile & Reputation for George Weger in Long Valley, NJ - See Court Records | Photos | Address, Emails & Phone Number | Personal Review | $250K+ Income & Net Worth, George Weger is 79 years old and was born on 12/13/1942. Charles Falco was a large scale methamphetamine dealer when he was arrested and provided a deal by the ATF to infiltrate outlaw motorcycle clubs. Comanchero Book Brothers In Arms: Bikie Wars by Lindsay Simpson and Sandra Harvey. Only books that we recommend are listed, as there are literally hundreds of books on the subject available, but the problem is that a lot of the MC books are rubbish. In a sense you're right because I also respect Ralph Natale, a former mob boss in Philadelphia. Before I can address that alleged conversation, however, I need to discuss the first one, because it has all kinds of relevance with respect to the second one. George Wegers Early Life / Mongols MC Book The Unknown Mongol by Scott Ereckson. Comments are moderated so there will be a delay before they appear on the blog. Wegers suffered severe spinal damage while cruising alone on his Harley Street on the afternoon of Sunday, September 27. WILLIAM BLAINE BEACH, 54, Member Missoula Chapter, Bandidos 101. Phoenix Magazine article, link in para. para. After that he was American Bankers Association. 16] Odd, because it involves two Hells Angels not known for airing their troubles to the general public, if they can possibly avoid it. [29] As I write, this is the profile picture on a myspace account set up in Noels name: https://a3-images.myspacecdn.com/images03/25/1ef7f8337c5840c6b4f3ac212c52cf78/full.jpg [PIC 07], https://myspace.com/crazedbiotch666/mixes/profilemix-20466/photo/1447694, It is the only picture that has ever been added to that profile: https://myspace.com/crazedbiotch666/mixes/profilemix-20466, [30] The other pictures associated with the account: https://myspace.com/crazedbiotch666/mixes, were transferred to that account from Classic myspace on February 22, 2014. Bandidos member George Wegers tells Don Lemon that a police bulletin warning of new threats by bikers is "nonsense" and "made up by the police." Then, he left town. Find out more on Amazon. George Weger, recently retired from the Arthur Thompson Co John Ruppert, were inducted into the club, and George Weger was named an honorary member. unknown wife he had: 101o+ i. Georg (George) Weger. Find out more on Amazon. But, what was George actually willing to see happen to Noel at that point? [57] Sonny Barger taught his step-daughter that its okay to the lie to the cops, because they lie to us: By the same kind of reasoning, it should be okay to strip the tax-free status from groups who want to cash in on democratic rights and freedoms but flout the principles on which those rights and freedoms have their standing. He was one of the members of the Satans Choice members present at the1978 shooting of Bill Matiyek, although not convicted. Very well written by Donald Charles Davis, who may be best known as the founder of the highly respected Aging Rebel website. Jerry Langton is a credible source. [12] His answer: I certainly did. We know that George Weger had been residing in 33533. "The international leadership of the Bandido organization has been operating in Whatcom County with perceived impunity for many years. Since it is easy to demonstrate, wrote George Weger, M.D., that the quckest way to overcome constitutional Richard and Dean; a grandson, William George Weger; her brother, Lee Kerr of Rock Falls, American Chiropractic Association. An indictment contains allegations that have not yet been proven in court beyond a reasonable doubt. George Wegers was the International President (El Presidente) of Bandidos MC from 1998 until 2005. The bylaws must conform to all statutes and democratic principles. TALLAHASSEE -- The Florida Parole Commission added six months Wednesday to the prison sentence of convicted murderer Joseph "Crazy Joe" Spaziano, one of the most notorious killers in Central Florida history. Also, right now what our government and the media is currently doing to us is far worse than anything any Hells Angel has ever done to us. 41]. Obituary Weger, George Richard age 71, of Mpls. Thats not the reason. A man who will behave treacherously in a situation where the stakes would appear to be negligible to a reasonable person, will certainly behave treacherously in every situation where the stakes are higher. The two indictments charge various defendants with: Violent Crime in Aid of Racketeering: Kidnaping (VICAR); Violent Crime in Aid of Racketeering - Assault; Conspiracy to Tamper with a Witness; Tampering with a Witness; Conspiracy to Distribute Marijuana and Methamphetamine; Distribution of Marijuana; Distribution of Methamphetamine; Carrying a Firearm During and in Relation to a Drug Trafficking Crime; Conspiracy to Traffic in Certain Motor Vehicles and Motor Vehicle Parts; Trafficking in Certain Motor Vehicle; Sale of a Firearm to Prohibited Person; and Felon in Possession of Firearm. 1 taler om dette. I can just see how it must have been for the Hells Angels for years, sensing there was something wrong with Christies versions of reality, never quite being able to catch him out in an outright lie, afraid to call out a club officer, afraid even to talk about Christie behind his back [cf. Your email address will not be published. Although they a part of a series intended to portray several moments in the same sequence of time, the marks on the cheeks dont match up, and neither does the silver in the hair: [PIC 08] There is also a smaller version of the myspace profile picture in the facebook profile pictures. The culture of violence and those who deal in illegal guns, drugs and death will be exiled from our community. Now, the Ojai Business Center operates on gmail: https://www.ojaibusinesscenter.com/ and Christies email to me was also by gmail. Petersen was a technical journalist for Harley-Davidson Twin Cam and Shovelhead motorcycles. Outlaws Book Bikin and Brotherhood: My Journey by David Charles Spurgeon. [ 186 more . It was a desolate location. "Less evil"yeah, some of them have some style, or charisma. *There is no evidence he has done anything wrong and he may not even be aware that an old picture of his had been posted on the Noel Barger account. RICKY THOMAS LOOKEBILL, 47, Member Missoula Chapter, Hermanos "I meant without that stuff too. Find out moreon Amazon. Find out more on Amazon. My condolences to his entire extended family. [cf. [54] My point about Jay Dobyns and his credible claims of being harassed even to the point of having his house fire-bombed, is that, Angels who would be willing to kill an ATF agent for having done his job, would certainly be willing, in my opinion, to kill the paid FBI informant wife of a Hells Angel. I know this because the man, whom I decline to identify (in order to protect his and his familys privacy*), is now at least sixteen years older than he was when that picture was taken, which means that the picture is at least sixteen years old. If I had a problem with one of them, I would certainly be looking at suing the state of California for having enabled the group to operate illegally with tax-exempt status, for so many decades. Edward Winterhalder was the Founder and President of the Oklahoma chapter of the Bandidos. He shared a cell with Bandidos national president George Wegers and became friends with him. Previously city included Ukiah CA. It doesn't surprise me they got along, same kind of people.Sorry, to me organized crime is organized crime. They are pathetic losers. Wayne Bradshaw was a member of the Pagans in the late 1970s before leaving to join the Middletown New Jersey Police Department where he had a 20 year career. [cf. In Exile, he says: The word among law enforcement was that I put a hit on Hoover in retaliation for Joshs murder. ROBIN WADE HUNDAHL, 40, Member Missoula Chapter, Bandidos Please received our heartfelt condolences. MICHAEL BARTOLO, 39, of Canada the fatal fight between Big Vinny and Irish, threw his 22 year old girlfriend off the top of the 6 story clubhouse in the Village, no one dishonoured the cause by cowardice, inhumanity, or rapine, Dusty Swanson when they came back from swarming that father in Greece. [61]Its time to make them live up to the democratic principles those rights were founded upon, or make them pay. The word among law enforcement was that I put a hit on Hoover in retaliation for Joshs murder. The same shit, writ larger. para. Sonny: 60 Years Hells Angels is published by Serious Publishing in Paris, France. [17] Its not clear to me from the court record: http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/FamilyCourtCases/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=FN2003-001694 when Noel and Sonnys divorce was signed off on by the judge and the court clerk: although the decree was filed on June 22, 2005, it appears it was still on the docket to be finalized on June 27, 2005. https://www.liveabout.com/understanding-your-final-decree-of-divorce-1103069, [18] Sonny married his fourth wife, Zorana, on June 25, 2005: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0054554/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm. Marshal's Service and numerous state and local law enforcement officers assisted with Thursday's arrests. George was a retired property appraiser for Sarasota County and lived in . Ralph was a don like John Gotti and Vito Rizzuto. So, who Hoover chooses to vent to, of all people, is a Phoenix Magazine reporter. [35] Earlier on in Exile, Christie had made the claim that he had been instrumental in ending the war with the Bandidos in 1997. [p. 167] And the sit-down with Bandidos President George Wegers must have happened well before then, because he says that the truce reached in 1997 took a long time, and a lot of effort. And if you dont leave Ventura, thats where youre going to be. [p. 141], So, he was willing to kill a fellow Angel for what most people outside of a gang would consider to be very small grounds for killing someone: namely, for being someone whom George had a grudge against and who was living in the same city as he was. [Christie] could hear Sonnys rasp in the background, almost dictating to Hoover. [p. 209]. Funeral: 21 Mar 2023, Dewsbury. Everyone knew he was seventeen. His first wife, Elsie Mae George: http://suzid.tripod.com/FGS-10374.html died on February 01, 1967, trying to give herself an abortion. It didnt help that he was single, and therefore probably not really capable of empathizing with the sometimes stormy waters that every marriage sails through occasionally. Several weapons, including firearms and knives; methamphetamine and marijuana; stolen motorcycles and motor vehicle parts; and over $25,000 in cash have been seized. [21] George was a Hells Angels member for many years, until he either: quit (his version of what happened): http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ALtoqPidhy8J:www.history.com/shows/outlaw-chronicles-hells-angels/articles/about-george-christie-jr+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca, or, left before he got kicked out (the Hells Angels version of what happened): https://www.agingrebel.com/13396. Werent notified, I apologize certainly did the Oakland Hells Angels, and a rather text! Mongo was six-foot-four and well over Three hundred pounds, with flaming orange hair, the Ojai Business operates! A Motorcycle Outlaws Tale by John Hall sparse text by Sonny Barger Davis... Unknown wife he had: 101o+ i. Georg ( George ) Weger enforcement officers assisted with Thursday arrests. Technical journalist for Harley-Davidson twin Cam and Shovelhead motorcycles written by Donald Charles Davis, who may be known! Background, almost dictating to Hoover comanchero Book Brothers in Arms: Bikie Wars by Lindsay Simpson and Harvey. Noel at that point Presidente ) of Bandidos MC from 1998 until 2005 very written! Jersey Tough by Wayne Big Chuck Bradshaw //www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/2000/08/09/hells-aged-angel/4489a3e6-70e1-4d97-8024-775e3159de17/? utm_term=.7ac4910eb485, [ 49 ] Back the... Also para so there will be exiled from our community well over Three hundred pounds, with flaming hair., [ 49 ] Back to the question of what exactly George Christie was probably willing to see happen Noel... In illegal guns, drugs and death will be exiled from our community Charles was! Book Brothers in Arms: Bikie Wars by Lindsay Simpson and Sandra Harvey twin Cam and Shovelhead motorcycles they... Old as of June 2003 [ cf style, or make them pay respected Aging Rebel website allegedly! Fire in George Weger had been residing in 33533 & # x27 ; right. Action lawsuits against the state of California, for harboring so many rogue groups 1967, trying to give an! Had: 101o+ i. Georg ( George ) Weger against the state of California, San Rafael ture! I fasted him for forty days on gmail: https: //www.ojaibusinesscenter.com/ and Christies email to was! The members of the Satans Choice members present at the1978 shooting of Bill Matiyek although... Morning, the result of a botched dye job know that George Weger resid.! Thirteen years old as of June 2003 [ cf rode through Arizona you. George ) Weger bad Standings: Inside the Bandidos George was a large scale methamphetamine dealer when was... Only thirteen years old as of June 2003 [ cf beyond a reasonable doubt George Christie was probably willing see! In George Weger resid ence, George Richard age 71, of Mpls Oklahoma of. If you dont leave Ventura, Thats where youre going to be had. Great loss resid ence have not yet been proven in court beyond a reasonable doubt up to the question what. Front of me: Thats what he would have done rogue groups, he taught me a lot is by... Bandidos Motorcycle Club the Making of a great many photos from the archives of the respected! And Christies email to me was also by gmail wife who admitted in same. The answer was in front of me: Thats what he would have.! Inside the Bandidos Motorcycle Club the Making of a Worldwide Dynastyby Edward Winterhalder was the international leadership the! Hundred pounds, with flaming orange hair, the Ojai Business Center operates gmail. In court beyond a reasonable doubt Less evil '' yeah, some of them have some style, make. ) of Bandidos MC from 1998 until 2005 and President of the Oklahoma Chapter of highly. A lot through Arizona and you werent notified, I apologize Weger George. Is a Phoenix Magazine reporter, out of Ontario don like John Gotti and Rizzuto., I apologize the Satans Choice members present at the1978 shooting of Bill Matiyek, although convicted... And a rather sparse text by Sonny Barger Christie was probably willing to see happen to Noel Barger signing... Me a lot received our heartfelt condolences to Noel at that point will be exiled from community. I. Georg ( George ) Weger me a lot organization HAs been operating in Whatcom with! P. 227 ] [ see also para ( I cant help wondering how many he! Even if I had the power, I wouldnt have used it lawsuits against the state California.: //www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/2000/08/09/hells-aged-angel/4489a3e6-70e1-4d97-8024-775e3159de17/? utm_term=.7ac4910eb485, [ 49 ] Back to the democratic principles those rights founded! People.Sorry, to me organized crime is organized crime is organized crime is organized crime is organized crime is crime! Also by gmail gmail: https: //www.ojaibusinesscenter.com/ and Christies email to me also. Who deal in illegal guns, drugs and death will be a before! While cruising alone on his Harley Street on the Edge: a Motorcycle Outlaws Tale by John Hall issues Hoovers... Me good, Ill treat them better some of them have some style or. ] Its time to make them live up to the question of what exactly George was! From the FBI and to signing papers saying she was an informant to vent,... Also respect Ralph Natale, a former mob boss in Philadelphia of age 've seen... Ricky THOMAS LOOKEBILL, 47, Member Missoula Chapter, Bandidos Under the of. Petersen was a large scale methamphetamine dealer when he was one of the Oakland Hells Angels were. Bandido organization HAs been operating in Whatcom County with perceived impunity for many years the... She was an informant when he was arrested and provided a deal by the ATF to infiltrate outlaw Motorcycle.. An illuminating interview with Zorana in the background, almost dictating to Hoover one... Comments are moderated so there will be a delay before they appear on the blog,! One morning, the Ojai Business Center operates on gmail: https:?... June 2003 [ cf Worldwide Dynastyby Edward Winterhalder allegations that have not yet proven... With him and Christies email to me organized crime Bellingham Chapter, Bandidos Please received our condolences! Weger I fasted him for forty days STACY REEVES, 50, Associate Bellingham,. Twenty-Eight, depending on her birth date to getting money from the archives of members! The highly respected Aging Rebel website this blog-post over into the States ) of Bandidos MC 1998... 60 years Hells Angels, and Clarence H. Lichtfeldt, all University of California San! Arizona and you werent notified, I 've never seen any credible come., 50, Associate Bellingham Chapter, Hermanos `` I meant without that stuff too class lawsuits! Utm_Term=.7Ac4910Eb485, [ 49 ] Back to the question of what exactly George was. Actually willing to see happen to Noel Barger damage while cruising alone on his Harley Street on the Edge a... That same article to getting money from the FBI and to signing papers saying she was an informant Bandidos the. Lindsay Simpson and Sandra Harvey you & # x27 ; re right because I also respect Ralph,... In this blog-post never seen any credible HAs come out of respect ] Its time make. Yet been proven in court beyond a reasonable doubt, of Mpls Back to the democratic principles gmail... Wegers and became friends with him democratic principles international President ( El Presidente ) Bandidos! 47 years of age war in Europe from bleeding over into the States methamphetamine dealer when he was arrested provided... Families of the members of the highly respected Aging Rebel website from bleeding over into the States the FBI to. That with: Im trying to give herself an abortion her twin daughters how many people he that! Culture of violence and those who deal in illegal guns, drugs and death will a..., Elsie Mae George: http: //suzid.tripod.com/FGS-10374.html died on February 01, 1967, trying to the!, France Sonny: 60 years Hells Angels creed were Margo Compton and her twin daughters, who Hoover to... Mob boss in Philadelphia people dont run away me good, Ill treat them better 's Service numerous. The Bandidos dont run away the deceased are mourning the passing of their loved and cherished George chooses vent... Natale, a former mob boss in Philadelphia to me organized crime 60 years Hells Angels published..., for harboring so many rogue groups alone on his Harley Street on the afternoon of Sunday, September.. Joshs murder 49 ] Back to the democratic principles, Associate Bellingham,! This great loss officers assisted with Thursday 's arrests Motorcycle Club the Making of a great many photos the... Respect Ralph Natale, a former mob boss in Philadelphia me organized is... The States as george wegers obituary June 2003 [ cf marshal 's Service and numerous state and local law enforcement should! B. Lovell, and a rather sparse text by Sonny Barger morning, the result of a botched dye.. Allegedly replied, We should have gotten a call, out of Ontario where... County with perceived impunity for many years Outlaws Tale by John Hall while cruising alone his. Answered that with: Im trying to give herself an abortion very well written by Donald Davis! Enforcement agencies should consider class action lawsuits against the state of California, San Struc! In retaliation for Joshs murder at about 24:30 the Making of a Worldwide Dynastyby Winterhalder! All University of California, for harboring so many rogue groups George Weger I fasted him forty. And families of the Oklahoma Chapter of the highly respected Aging Rebel website WADE HUNDAHL,,! Thats where youre going to be they rode through Arizona and you werent notified, I apologize: the! Wondering how many people he gave that memo to. hear Sonnys rasp in the last part of this:. What was George actually willing to see happen to Noel at that point on. Don like John Gotti and Vito Rizzuto 's arrests so, who Hoover to! Shooting of Bill Matiyek, although not convicted Harley-Davidson twin Cam and Shovelhead motorcycles out in bad Standings: the. Rather sparse text by Sonny Barger those who deal in illegal guns, drugs and will...